Sleep Strategies for Better Rest

In the second of our chats with Director of the Centre for Sleep Science in the School of Human Sciences at UWA Dr. Jen Walsh we delve into the emerging topic of bedtime procrastination, where people delay going to bed without any specific reason, leading to poor sleep quality and higher daytime fatigue. 

Dr Walsh explores the concept of revenge bedtime procrastination, where individuals stay up late to regain a sense of control over their day. Dr. Walsh also discusses the impact of mental load on sleep, especially for mothers, and provides practical tips for establishing a healthy bedtime routine and improving overall sleep quality.

To find out more about how a better night's sleep can assist your overall health and wellbeing visit www.sleep.hif.com.au

Transcript

HIF acknowledges the traditional owners and custodians of the land on which this podcast is produced. We pay our respects to Elders, past, present and emerging, and to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. The following episode contains general information and discussion about sleep treatments and advice and is intended for informational purposes.

00:24 (Vox Pop)

about 8 out of 10, so 81% of women and 86% of women with children, so mothers say that the mental load keeps them awake at night.

Host: 

In this episode, we're diving into the essentials of sleep health with Dr. Jen Walsh, continuing our discussion on what it really takes to develop good sleep strategies.

Dr. Walsh is the Director of the Centre for Sleep Science at the University of Western Australia and a Senior Research Fellow at the West Australian Sleep Disorders Research Institute at Sir Charles Gardner Hospital. She's one of the leading experts on sleep, and today, she's helping us tackle some intriguing topics around sleep patterns.

... So, Dr. Walsh, let's talk about something a lot of us might relate to... what exactly is 'bedtime procrastination,' and why is it such a big issue for our overall sleep health?"

Jen Walsh

Yeah, so look, thank you for having me and talking to me about this or getting me to talk about this. It's such a new area. It's very interesting. Bedtime procrastination is...when we go to bed later than we intend to be going to bed, but there is no specific reason that's causing it. It's not like we need to be up doing something, it's just that we are delaying the bedtime. 

And this generally will result in us not getting adequate sleep. So that's bedtime procrastination, but there's also what we call revenge bedtime procrastination. And it's when that delay in going to sleep has some kind of retaliatory basis. Or for example, it's often in the case where people don't have very much control over their daytime lives and they, by staying up later, particularly into the night time, they feel like they're having some kind of control and over their, they're regaining some control or a sense of control or freedom over their lives. 

And yeah, whether it's revenge or just normal bedtime procrastination, we know it's associated with poor sleep. So poor sleep quality, short asleep duration, and higher daytime fatigue. And we know that... more likely to happen in people who have poorer self-control. 

So you know people who find it more difficult to stop doing things I guess. 

Host: 

Yes interesting I can definitely relate to maybe revenge procrastination. Well yeah that need for control I can understand when you've got little kids and you just want your own time and yeah absolutely.

Jen Walsh

Exactly, that adult time, that me time after the children are in bed and it's a little bit of control, something you can do for you. 

Host: Yeah, and do you think it's always procrastination or sometimes just people being unable to wind down or switch off? 

Jen Walsh

Yeah, so look, this is one of the challenges, I guess, because it's a fairly new area, like I said, and there's also a fair bit of overlap in that what people do in their wind down routine so this is their pre-sleep routine, things that they do to get ready for bed. It's something that makes them feel relaxed potentially but this is often the thing that also they will procrastinate on as well. So it may be that someone gets engrossed in a book or maybe it is just looking at the news and maybe it's on a device, maybe it's looking at TikTok or Facebook or something and they just can't put it down.

 However, we know that in a lot of cases people will think that devices are bad and yes there is a bit of evidence that maybe there can be detrimental for sleep for some people although a lot of the emerging evidence shows that it's probably not that bad and in fact it can be beneficial.

But in the case of bedtime procrastination, that's where it becomes problematic. Because in some situations, using a tool, whether it's a device or a book or a relaxation podcast or something, it's a distraction that people will use to distract themselves from potentially negative thoughts or feelings that might be actually detrimental to their sleep. So..Yeah, look, it's really hard to disentangle them at this point to say, you know, whether it's the procrastination or whether it's just that they're, you know, they're overdoing their wind down. 

Host:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Maybe you could give us your view on what a healthy amount of sleep is and what is a good bedtime routine?

Jen Walsh

 Yeah, so look, the recommended amount of sleep is, has actually been...sourced from a group of experts basically. We can't, because we can't tell, you know, everyone needs to have a specific seven, eight, nine hours of sleep. It varies from individual to individual. So the recommendation is somewhere between seven and nine hours for adults. However, a little bit less or a little bit more may also be okay. 

But if it's much outside that, then it's probably not suitable for many people, if anyone.

So yes, seven to nine hours, but obviously that's a big range. So the best way to work out what is good for you as an individual is to think how you feel when you wake up after, you know, a regular, perhaps you're getting, regularly getting seven hours sleep. And when you wake up in the morning, do you feel refreshed? And if you're not feeling refreshed, then you can get more sleep and do that regularly and if you're not feeling refreshed after that maybe you need to be getting a little bit more. If you are getting as much sleep as you can and you are not feeling refreshed then it's highly likely that, well I would certainly encourage people to speak to either a sleep physician or your general practitioner to see whether there's some underlying reason for not feeling refreshed when you wake up in the morning because ideally we should be feeling refreshed. 

The other way is to think when whether you can get through the day on the amount of sleep that you've had without needing to have a nap in the daytime. If you can easily get through the day without needing a nap then that the amount of sleep that you're getting is more than likely adequate. So that's how much sleep people need.

And then in terms of the bedtime routine, what does a good routine look like? Again, highly individual. So like I mentioned, a bedtime routine or a pre-sleep routine or a wind down routine is beneficial that it sets our brain and our body up knowing that we're about to go to sleep. And we know that for children, this is really beneficial. Often it looks something like, where you might have a meal, you might have a bath or a shower, you will then perhaps brush your teeth, go to the toilet, they might be reading a book, listening to a podcast, meditation, something relaxing, and then when you're feeling sleepy you get into bed and you go to sleep. 

And that can be really variable depending upon the individual, the age of the person,

But like I said, we know that with children, this is really powerful and that they do sleep better if they have this bedtime routine. 

Host:

Yeah, absolutely. I know with my son, just implementing a meditation for him has been a game changer. It's amazing the difference. 

Jen Walsh

Yeah. There's a lot of evidence for meditations, progressive muscle relaxation just general relaxation exercises. Obviously you need to find the right one that works for you and I would encourage people to give them a try and find the voice that works for you and the particular whatever it is exercise, yeah, that works for you. 

Midroll: 

This episode of Sleep Easy with HIF is brought to you by the Health Insurance Fund of Australia. What if you're a health insurer gave you the freedom to choose. 

Host:

And do you see anything revealing in HIF's sleep index about the difference men and women are facing in relation to sleep? 

Jen Walsh

Yeah, so it was really interesting. The data that's come from the HIF survey, it's about a quarter of the population, so both men and women, it was fairly similar, report having terrible or not good sleep.

However, I think the things that I guess really jumped out was when you throw children into the mix. And if there are children, so mothers, about 25% of them report getting terrible or not good sleep on a regular basis. Whereas fathers, it's about 18%. So yeah, the mothers are suffering a little bit more there.

And then on the flip side, only 4% of mothers report their sleep as being ideal, which is really low. So there's a lot of people not getting an ideal amount of sleep, whereas 14% of fathers report having sleep that is ideal. So fathers seem to be getting a bit more sleep that they are calling... you know, ideal. 

Host:

I was going to say I can absolutely relate and I'm not surprised that those statistics have come out because I know I'm certainly feeling it with an 18 month old. 

Jen Walsh

Yes, yes, it's a very hard time and this aligns with what all the other large sort of epidemiological studies show as well that generally it's in the sort of the years or the ages that people are more likely to have children, there tends to be a bit of a divergence between men and women in regards to the amount of sleep that they are getting. But generally women report having less sleep than they would ideally like to be getting in those years. 

Host:

Yeah, I wish I could have a nap every day.

I just can't find the time to fit it in. 

Jen Walsh

Yeah, when children are young, it's potentially a little bit easier because if they are napping, then you can potentially sneak in a nap. If you can get everyone's naps aligned. As they get older, it just becomes a little bit more chaotic. 

Host: 

And do you think is the problem for women less about the procrastination and more about the mental load? 

Jen Walsh

Yeah.

This is again really hard to tease out and because the bedtime procrastination is a really new area and also I guess our recognition of the mental load as well. I'm actually not sure that we've really got much evidence to draw from but what the HIV data has found of women and 86% of women with children, so mothers, say that the mental load keeps them awake at night. Whereas for men it was 69% and fathers it was 72% were reporting that the mental load was keeping them awake at night. 

So mothers and women in general are more likely to have sleep disruption because of what they're calling the mental load. 

So, yeah, which look, it's not my area of academic knowledge, but obviously I can speak from a personal perspective, that yeah, I think this aligns with what a lot of women are reporting, that the mental load often does burden them when they are trying to sleep. 

And in fact, we know that... Certainly women are more prone to having insomnia, which is that difficulty getting to sleep and staying asleep. 

And this is for so many reasons, but one of them is that women are more likely to be, we're more likely to be prone to various mental health disorders, including anxiety and depression and...and situational or environmental stresses. 

So things like mental load, jobs, household functioning, things like that. And we're also more likely to be burdened by socioeconomic factors as well, which can contribute to that stress and anxiety when people are trying to sleep. 

Host:

And I wonder if these days,a lot of mothers are working as well as, you know, not just being at home with the kids, it's work and kids and everything else that goes on.It's a big, it is a big mental load. 

Jen Walsh

It is. Yeah, it's a changing world, I guess. And yeah, it's a challenge for people too. I think, and look, it's not just women as well. We should definitely point out it's certainly not just affecting women, affecting women. It just seems to be affecting more women these days. 

Host:

So what are some tips for those of us who are struggling to sleep because of the mental load or from other stresses? Yeah so I would say that certainly routine is key. 

Our bodies really like routine so we need to be prioritising sleep and putting getting to bed at the same time every day. More importantly, we actually need to be getting up at the same time every day. 

So maybe we need to be setting alarms for ourselves, not just in the morning to get up, but in the evening to get ourselves ready to go to bed. Okay, now my alarm's gone off. This means at this time, I need to be at this point in my wind down routine. So you need to be trying to put all those other things aside. 

Certainly having that schedule for sleep, but also for tasks that people need to do during the day. So, because we know that, you know, where mental load is damaging to our sleep, try and set time throughout the day to tick off the things that are gonna be contributing to the mental load but also schedule breaks throughout the day as well. 

So you have that downtime during the day and therefore you don't need to do that revenge bedtime procrastination at nighttime when you're trying to sleep or when you should be sleeping. 

Doing things like the relaxation techniques that we've talked about, the meditation, the mindfulness, the progressive muscle relaxation, things like that. We know that they are beneficial, if they're part of your bedtime routine or even at various time points throughout the day. It doesn't have to be just before your bedtime. 

We know that people who do those sorts of things throughout the day will sleep better at night as well. People can have a notebook next to their bed and they can jot down things that they need to, you know, if they find that just before they're falling asleep that, oh, I need to...remember this in the morning, maybe have a notebook and then it takes it out of your mind and you don't need to think about it again because you've popped it down there and you can see that the next day. 

People who I guess focus on particular points throughout the night or as they're falling asleep, they focus on particular topics or tasks, things that are keeping them awake.try and distract yourself because at that, you know, 2 or 3 a.m. your brain is not functioning at its best, you know, it's not productive, you're not going to solve the world's problems, or your family finances at that time of day. 

So try and distract yourself and you can do that by having what we call a mental holiday place. So you can take yourself on a holiday, you know, you walk to the beach or walk through the forest or whatever it is and that will just help you to think about things other than that particular point that's keeping you awake or keeping you alert. Or what you can do is tell yourself, okay, again, 2 a.m., not thinking the clearest now, I'm going to schedule a time tomorrow when...between meetings, if you're working, or maybe it's after school drop off or something, I'm going to schedule a time to think about those tasks then. So 10am or 9am, that's when I'm going to solve that crisis. 

Because 2 o'clock in the morning, you're not going to solve it at that point. And I think if people are trying a number of these different techniques, and they're really not getting any traction with them, they're still struggling with their sleep. 

I would highly encourage people to reach out to a sleep specialist, whether it's a sleep physician, whether it's a sleep psychologist, and see whether you can get some resolution because we want everyone to be sleeping as well as they can, to be functioning as well as they can, and to be as happy as they can. 

Host:

I am definitely gonna take that tip on, imagining a holiday place at 2am when I'm awake thinking about work things or kid things. I think that's a really great idea. So thank you so much. This has been very insightful and I'm going to take a lot away from this, this episode and implement into my own life, which I imagine also our listeners will, will be taking away many tips too. So thank you so much for joining us today on this podcast.

Jen Walsh

Yeah, well look, it was a pleasure talking to you. I hope everyone sleeps really well.

End Roll:

The content provided on this podcast is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any sleep-related concerns or questions, we encourage you to seek advice from a licensed healthcare professional or sleep specialist based on your specific circumstances.