"From Fatigue to Focus: How Better Sleep Transforms Performance"

In this episode of Sleep Eazzzy, sleep expert Amanda Slinger and HIF’s Jen O’Brien unpack the far-reaching impacts of poor sleep on workplace safety, mental health, leadership, and performance. They reveal that sleep is as critical to wellbeing as diet and exercise, with consequences ranging from reduced productivity to serious safety risks. The discussion also highlights how HIF is championing sleep health through workplace education, flexible policies, and accessible sleep tools for staff and members alike.

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To find out more about how a better night's sleep can assist your overall health and wellbeing visit www.sleep.hif.com.au

Transcript

00:00

HIF acknowledges the traditional owners and custodians of the land on which this podcast is produced. We pay our respects to Elders, past, present and emerging, and to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. The following episode contains general information and discussion about sleep treatments and advice and is intended for informational purposes.

00:23

The data really is, it's concerning and it's a bit of a wake up call. And the research shows that more than half of Aussies are rocking up to work feeling exhausted in the past year. And, you know, almost 90 % of them admit that it impacts their productivity and their wellbeing. And that's huge. And, you know, that's not just a feeling of being, you know, feeling a bit sluggish, kind of tired. It's a real barrier to performance and their wellbeing. Welcome to Sleep Easy, the HIV podcast that helps you rest better.

00:53

live healthier and feel more energized  every day.  In this episode, we're joined by two inspiring women leading the charge in sleep health  and wellbeing. Amanda Slinger is one of Australia's top sleep experts and founder of Sleep Spot, a certified sleep practitioner and passionate educator. Amanda has helped thousands understand the true value of sleep  as a foundation for better life. Hello, Amanda. Hello, how are you? I'm well.

01:21

Also with us is Jen O'Brien, HIF's Chief Member and People Officer. Jen is a driving force behind HIF's commitment to sleep as a key pillar of health, on par with nutrition, exercise, and championing the initiatives for both staff and members. How are you, Jen? I'm good, Guy. Excited to be here.  Look, together they'll help us explore why  sleep matters more than ever and how small changes can lead to

01:50

big improvements in your health, your focus and your day-to-day wellbeing. So let's dive in. If I can kick off with the big picture, Amanda, from your perspective  and research, how does poor sleep affect workplace safety, productivity and mental wellbeing? And are we underestimating just how critical sleep really is? Yeah, absolutely.  I could talk about this for the whole hour, so you might have to cut me off.

02:19

But yeah, absolutely. When we think about poor sleep,  we tend to focus on fatigue  and rightly so because it's the most obvious visible symptom. We picture someone yawning at their desk, or it might be me this afternoon,  struggling to stay behind the wheel perhaps. But it's that fatigue focus that for a long time we've really spent a lot of time  looking at. And from my background, which was in health and safety and risk management in high risk industries.

02:48

That's really where I started my interest in sleep was through this fatigue lens. So it's traditionally been what we've looked at in terms of sleep in the workplace or lack of sleep.  But fatigue is just the tip of the iceberg.  What's underneath is what we really need to be looking at as well.  The safety component is so essential, but we need to be looking beyond that. So when we're looking at poor sleep, we're looking at cognitive performance, emotional performance, and also

03:16

Physiologically, what are the costs of poor sleep? So when we think about employees in the workplace,  we're looking at tired employees, but they have slower reaction times.  They've got poor memory,  they're more irritable.  Just ask my 17 year old son when I've had a poor night's sleep.  They're less able to manage stress. So little things become mountains  very quickly.  So increased risk of mental health challenges is a big one as well.

03:46

bidirectional relationship between sleep  and  mental health. What that really means is that  if we have poor sleep, we're likely to have more mental health challenges. And if we have mental health challenges, we're more likely to have poor sleep. So chicken or the egg, we don't know, but they're both very strongly linked. So there's so much more, there's reduced concentration, impaired judgment. People with poor sleep will have more,  make more errors.

04:13

And one that I'm very focused on in my line of work,  particularly with that health and safety lens is increased risk taking.  So you're to have more accidents with all of those things that I've mentioned.  And for people who are in high risk industries, that means serious safety consequences. So  for people operating machinery, those in perhaps farming industries, mine manufacturing, heavy haulage.  So

04:39

truck drivers,  poor sleep can have fatal consequences. And  I think it's really important to point out, it's not just for those people who are operating the machines or behind the wheel, it's also for their coworkers and for other drivers on the road,  if we're talking about long haul drivers. So  also frontline workers in high stress roles, so doctors and nurses and ambulance drivers, police officers,  the impact of poor sleep extends to those that they're actually treating. So  if you're

05:09

under slept  as a nurse, you could be making some really poor decisions. Thankfully I'm not nursing anymore, that's my background, but  I had a poor night's sleep earlier this year, it was actually two successive poor night's sleeps.  And  I found myself that morning putting cat food into the washing machine soaked dispenser. So, I mean.

05:33

that's got a bit of a funny bent to it, but imagine if that was in a workplace and you were a nurse or a doctor dispensing medication. So it really does have these big impacts. And I guess why does it really matter  so much right now? And it's because poor sleep is so widespread.  The latest statistics that we have here in Australia is that around 60 % of working Australians report at least one sleep problem a few nights a week. So that's significant. That's not  just a few tired,

06:03

individuals at work,  that's your team. And so  when sleep is missing, good sleep is missing, everything else really starts to crack. Jen, when you hear that and you look at the national and global data  around sleep deprivation, burnout, absenteeism,  how seriously do you think employers should be taking this? And  are there real economic or human costs that might be missing as well?  You're right, Guy. The data really is...

06:32

It's concerning and it's a bit of a wake-up call. And the research shows that more than half of Aussies are rocking up to work feeling exhausted in the past year. And almost 90 % of them admit that it impacts their productivity and their well-being. And that's huge. And that's not just a feeling of feeling a bit sluggish, kind of tired. It's a real barrier to performance and their well-being. And I was quite surprised to see in our research that people are taking sick days because of how tired they are.

06:59

And that's not just a health issue. That's a real red flag for businesses. If we're losing what amounts to, you know, I think it's almost a day a week of productivity because people are feeling tired. Well, you know, something's got to give.  You know, people shouldn't need to be taking a full day off because they're sleep deprived. It's not just healthy. It's, you know, it's not productive. Long term, that approach just isn't  sustainable. And I think for too long, sleep has been seen as it's a personal issue. But if people aren't sleeping well,

07:29

It totally affects how they show up to work, how they communicate, how they make decisions and how they manage stress. I think we really need to start looking at sleep the same way that we do physical and mental health in the workplace.  And that means employers actively encouraging and promoting healthy sleeping habits, not just kind of quietly hoping that their team will  sort it out at home. Amanda, can you unpack a little more about the risks?

07:57

poor sleep presents to employees, not just physical, but in terms of their performance  and overall wellbeing. There's  so much to unpack because it's physical, it's  the cognitive, the mental, and as you said,  the performance in the workplace.  And I think if we start with the, from a health perspective, and this list is huge, so I'm not gonna read all of it, but I think the main thing is that sleep underpins so much  of our physical health.

08:27

know, poor sleep is associated with an increased risk of anxiety and depression and other mental health challenges. So we've also got increased risk of cardiovascular disease. So that's things like heart attacks and strokes that they'll go up, increased risk associated with diabetes, obesity and dementia. And there's so many large scale research projects around the world at the moment that are actually looking further at this link between

08:55

poor sleep and dementia and  things like Alzheimer's disease. So  from a health perspective, it's huge.  And something which I sort of lean on, which I think people really sort of go, wow, that's amazing.  know, our immune function is so affected by our sleep, so much so that if you're planning to have a flu vaccination or whatever vaccination you're having or your child is having, that getting a great night's sleep the night before and the night after increases the effectiveness of that vaccination.

09:25

hugely. I can't remember the percentage but it just really rocked me at  how significant that was. So you know from a health perspective there's so many things that it can affect us. We've already talked about the safety and that's sort of  in my mind number one but from sort of longer term health consequences these things can really start to stack up. In terms of the performance angle I've already mentioned you know all of those different things that people will come to work after they've had a poor night's sleep.

09:53

know, decreased concentration,  more errors and so on. But you know, how that sort of plays out into the workplace, it's less communication. People aren't wanting to talk to each other. I I think we can all relate to having a poor night's sleep and  just wanting to shut the office door and not really engage with anybody. You've got a meeting on and you're the one that's got the head down and not wanting to make eye contact.  So team dynamics are certainly affected.  Leadership is a huge one.

10:23

Another area I'm really interested in studying, I'm doing a grad student business psychology at the moment because  I'm so fascinated by this impact of poor sleep  on leadership.  But  research is showing that leaders who are under-slept have less charisma. I mean, that's just, it's mind blowing, I think.  But then when you unpack how that plays out, it makes sense because they're less wanting to communicate and they're less smiley.

10:51

They're more grumpy, irritable.  So leadership is a big one. And in terms of leadership, know, what leaders say and do. So their behaviors around sleep hugely impacts their team and how the team performs.  So creativity is another one that's affected and in workplaces nowadays and  in this era, we really need to have really creative people on our team. And that's not necessarily from a artistic perspective, but it's about creative problem solving.

11:18

So those things will start to slide. Impulse control is reduced. So  that's  on so many levels.  Ethical decision making.  So we see more unethical decisions being made when people are poorly slept and increased risk taking, which I've already mentioned. And I think what's often missed is how subtly poor sleep chips away at someone's confidence and their self-control.

11:48

And over time, that just erodes trust in their own performance and in how others perceive them as well.  Jen, HIV has made sleep  a key part of its wellbeing agenda,  Even when it doesn't always get the same attention as diet or exercise, why has HIV chosen to really champion this space? Yes,  and it has. been a priority for us for a few years now.  And honestly, it's because sleep is health.

12:17

And we do, we talk a lot about diet and exercise and mental health. And of course, those are really, important. But if you're not sleeping well, everything else starts to unravel. You you might skip the gym because you're too tired or you reach for those sugary snacks just to keep you going. And I've been there myself as a mum of two kids who thankfully aren't  babies anymore, but I still remember those sleep deprived years. it takes, you know, it takes its toll  physically and mentally. You you feel foggy.

12:45

You're emotional. It affects everything from your ability to focus, your food choices to your patients levels.  And even now, you know, I'll still have an either two of poor sleep every now and then because, maybe I got to bed too late  and I really do.  notice it.  I'm not as focused or productive the next day. I'll crave that quick energy hit. I'll skip my morning run and then just, just feel worse for it.  And I know you need to remind yourself that that's okay sometimes and you know, life, life happens, but

13:15

What's really important is making the space  to recover and  that might be heading to bed a little bit earlier  the next night or even taking a short nap  during the day if I can. But the key is being aware of what your body needs and allowing rest to be part of your rhythm. So it's not just something that you feel guilty about. So from  a health fund perspective, especially a not for profit like HIV, we want our members and our employees to live full, healthy lives. And healthy sleep is absolutely...

13:44

foundational to that. So, you know, it's definitely high on our agenda and something that, you know, even as leaders here where  we're always promoting and advocating for.  Yeah. Look, Amanda,  let's bring this down to basics from your point of view. Sleep isn't always a simple fix, but what are some of the practical tools or changes workplaces can establish  to support better sleep?  Well,  I think the

14:12

The points that Jen just made are really important. that  they've recognised that  as an organisation that they can impact people's ability to sleep. And  this is something which I've struggled with so many organisations for over decade.  And that is that sleep is something that we do outside of work. So why should we be talking about sleep inside work? And I think that's what we need to change first is recognising that  the workplace is a great opportunity.

14:39

to be having conversations about sleep, putting it higher on people's  priority list  and demystifying how to get a great night's sleep. And you touched on this initially, know,  we  diet and exercise is always so front of mind with any sort of health  awareness program. I we learn about  nutrition and exercise at school, but we don't learn about sleep.  where...

15:05

do we learn about sleep? Where are going to learn about sleep? Well, it's the internet, it's talking to friends,  and a lot of it's misinformation, conflicting information, so it's overwhelming. So I think that what organisations can do is  play really important role in helping to provide that education to their workforce,  and  it's going to have  such huge benefits  to that organisation in terms of their bottom line, in terms of reduced absenteeism.

15:34

improved  people's performance and productivity and efficiency.  that's really, it's that focus, it's that focus that sleep is something that we should be talking about.  And I'd like to see sleep  health as a topic in onboarding programmes alongside those other  really important fitness for work issues like alcohol and drugs. So  it really does have its place. And I think,  starting by recognising that sleep

16:03

is part of your health and safety strategy.  It's for so long been that lens of fatigue  and you know focused on fatigue  and how do we measure fatigue in the workplace and that's got its place you know having in-cab monitoring devices to see when someone's fatigued but being able to put in some preventative measures so that we're not waiting for people to be fatigued, we're actually supporting them to stop the fatigue in the first place.  So it's not just a wellness extra.

16:31

It should be part of  an overall program within an employer's  strategies for mental health and wellness and productivity and performance. This episode of Sleep Easy with HIF is brought to you by the Health Insurance Fund of Australia. What if your health insurer gave you the freedom to choose? From a company perspective, Jen,  what's  HIF doing?

17:01

to support its members  and its team in getting better sleep. And are there any programs or partnerships that you're especially proud of?  Good question, Guy. And we've been advocating on sleep health in the community  for years now. And we're an organization that is 70 % or just over 70 % female employees. And also we have a higher percentage of our members are also female.  And from our research, we can really see that sleep issues affecting this cohort.

17:30

We've built sleep into both of our employee wellbeing offerings and also our member offerings. For our employees, we've worked with the amazing sleep coach Amanda here to run training and workshops to help our employees understand how sleep affects their lives and how they can actually do something about it. We've set up a really simple rest and recharge space in our offices here, which is a quiet room with a fold-out bed, there's white noise, there's low light, an alarm clock so people can take a short.

18:00

guilt-free power nap during the day.  So we're not pretending that naps don't happen. They do, and we're saying that that's okay, and here's how to do them well. And we also offer flexible or hybrid working, know, paid parental leave. We have a nine-day fortnight,  ability to purchase extra leave, and then we back that up with a really strong culture of genuinely disconnecting when you are on annual leave.  And so we recognize that rest and annual leave should be viewed as a reward. It's actually, you know, essential.

18:28

And for our members, we've rolled out programs like Nourish Baby, which is around sleep and settling support for new parents.  We offer a online  sleep improvement tool  called Sleep Space. And then we've also launched a sleep hub,  which is like an online hub for lots of resources that are available, not just for our members, but also the broader community.  They can take a quick quiz to learn their sleep ID and get personalised tips,  including blogs and podcasts and expert advice.

18:59

We believe that if we can create an environment in the workplace where rest is really respected  and where people are educated about their sleep and where there's flexibility and support provided, then everyone benefits. It's good for our people, it's good for our business and at the end of the day, well rested people,  they do better at work and they live better lives. That's 100 % right. Amanda, are there common workplace behaviours or even cultural norms that you've come across

19:29

that might be unintentionally making sleep just that little bit harder for employees?  For sure. And they're so hard to shift, but being aware of them and really being focused on doing something about them in your workplace is so important. But so many of them are baked into culture. That's why it's so hard to move.  But things like glorifying late night work.  And again, this comes down to what are our

19:55

supervisors and leaders demonstrating are they the ones working back late? So when someone starts in the organisation and they see their leader working back till seven o'clock at night, well they now think that's the norm. So I think having  onboarding conversations with  new team members is really important  around expectations around work hours. So you may see your boss working back a bit late, that's not the norm around here. We don't expect you to do that and we don't encourage you.

20:22

It's not just unexpected, it's about discouraging people because people want to show themselves as being really hardworking  and very productive. And we have this  mentality or mindset that working late means we're more productive, but it doesn't. If you're working late, you're more, potentially more productive at that time, but you're tired already. So you're not really as productive as you'd be if you just went home, had a great night's sleep and came in the next morning and worked really diligently then. So  there's a lot that we...

20:52

do in the workplace. Other things are  just rewarding that always on responsiveness around  emails,  picking up phone calls.  I can remember way back when the Blackberry first came out and  a colleague who was a stockbroker showed me his Blackberry and was so excitedly  and I'm like why on earth? And he said you should get one. I'm like why on earth would I want one?  And he said to me well you can get your emails when you're at home.

21:20

And I just looked at him and scrunched up my face and just went, why on earth would I want to do that? Fast forward just a few years and I'm getting my emails at home.  It's just a norm. I'm in the bathroom and I'm getting my emails. So it's this always on responsiveness. So encouraging workers, and I don't think many workplaces do this around just email. It's not etiquette. It's just  don't send an email that's going to land in someone's email box  at eight o'clock in the morning when you forgot to tell them something that

21:50

previous day, maybe put the delivery time for a little bit later in the morning so they're not bombarded with this barrage at eight or nine o'clock in the morning.  Not  allowing people to send emails after hours. And there are different programs that you can put into workplaces which can stop those emails being delivered to people's inboxes because whilst  I might've  sort of felt that it's really important to get an email off this evening at seven, eight, nine o'clock at night,

22:17

when I've remembered something or I've finished a piece of work, it lands in my colleague's inbox and she's going to get notification on her phone possibly that disconnects her from her relaxation and opportunity for downtime. And then she's going to feel  potentially obliged to pick it up.  just  resetting those norms  I think is very, very valuable.  And pushing, you  know, pushing back to back meetings all day.  I don't work in a corporate environment.

22:47

all the time anymore, but that was already getting in the way of my productivity at work. And I think it's just  not allowing people to switch off and having back-to-back meetings, it suddenly tells people that rest isn't valued.  If you want  people to sleep better, you have to show them  how to do it with education. But I think as Jen said, it's also about support.

23:14

and it's also about policy. So there's so many things that we can do  and  certainly the culture is a big part. So what leaders do and say about sleep  and their behaviors is critical  in terms of sleep. But there are other things that they can also look at and Jen touched on some of these. People have different chronotypes. So, you know, having rigid start times and finish times, you know, the typical nine to five.

23:39

That doesn't work for everybody. Some people might prefer to be more productive early in the morning if you're an early bird. Or you might be a night owl and be less productive in the morning and be  more productive in the late afternoon. allowing employees to first recognize what their natural chronotype is, because  it's in our genes. We don't decide it today or tomorrow. It's in our genes. We're born with it.  And allowing them to understand their chronotype and then potentially

24:08

flexible hours so they can start a bit later. And again, this is another  cultural  norm that we need to shift is that  people who have a late shift of chronotype are as effective as people who  are a morning lark.  we've got the early bird catches the worm, all these sayings around if you're an early bird, you're more productive and you get more from the day. Well, that's absolutely untrue. It's only because society favors those people because of those early start times.

24:37

If you have  a night owl starting a little bit later, they will be as productive as  you would have an early bird in the morning. So it would be like saying to an early bird, need to start laying, see how well they perform. So  it's really questioning how we structure our work and looking at alternate ways to really suit people's natural sleep rhythms.  Taking all that on board, Jen, do you think there's now a genuine business case

25:05

for making sleep part of a broader workplace health strategy,  not just for individuals, but for company culture as well?  Absolutely. And as I touched on earlier,  we believe that if you create an environment in the workplace where rest is respected  and people are educated about their sleep,  everyone  will benefit.  As I mentioned, it's good for people, it's good for business. And at the end of the day, if our people are well rested,

25:32

and energise, then they'll do better work and they'll be  generally happier in their roles too and live better lives.  Amanda, for a long time, sleep was either seen as a personal problem or something to be proud of sacrificing,  but that's changing, isn't it?  Why is it so important to make sleep part  of  mental health and wellbeing and that conversation that has to be had with employers and at work generally?

26:00

All the things that we've discussed, it  underpins everything  as individuals from a  health perspective to how  much they enjoy their day, enjoy the workplace,  how much they enjoy being part of the team that they're in  and how well they perform in the workplace.  For organisations, it's just critical from that bottom line perspective  for retention and  reducing turnover as well.

26:28

There's just so many benefits to having some sort of sleep health program and not just hitting it with some sleep hygiene tips. I mean, that's not really going to move the needle in my perspective. You really need to have a strategy and like HIF have done, they've really strategised how they approach sleep health within their workforce. And it's not just sort of a one-off campaign, it's an ongoing part.

26:56

and it's a big conversation within their team. So rather than, you know, people just saying, oh, how are you? You know, how are you Jen? How did, you know, it should be, did you sleep last night? And, know,  for people in my world, that's the first question I always ask them. So how did you sleep last night? Because it's such a great lead into, well, I had a great night's sleep and I'm feeling awesome and okay, and you had a bad night's sleep. Well, I'm gonna be a little bit more sensitive to your needs today. So it opens up conversations on what happened and then,

27:26

people start to share ideas, which  is invaluable because  some of the best things I've learned about sleep, I've come from  very unlikely places and I'm not talking about TikTok. Such great insights and it's clear that sleep isn't just a personal issue, it's a workplace issue, it's a wellbeing issue and a performance issue. If you're an employer listening, maybe it's time to ask not just how is your team performing, but how they're sleeping.

27:55

And if you're someone who's been burning the candle at both ends, perhaps it's time to have that conversation and make sleep a priority. Thanks again to Amanda Slinger from Sleep Spot and Jen O'Brien from HIF. And thanks for listening to Sleep Easy. For more tips and resources, head to sleep.hif.com.au. And until next time, sleep well.

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The content provided on this podcast is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice,  diagnosis or treatment.  If you have any sleep-related concerns or questions, we encourage you to seek advice from a licensed healthcare professional  or sleep specialist based on your specific circumstances.